Were the Victorians cleverer than us? Research indicates a decline in brainpower and reflex speed thanks to 'REVERSE' natural selection

Study claims we have 14 IQ points LESS than our 19th Century ancestors

Findings contradict the Flynn effect, which claims IQ has risen three points every decade since the Second World War

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2323944/Were-Victorians-cleverer-Research-indicates-decline-brainpower-reflex-speed.html

Now how could that be? Let me see: lack of nutritious food, lack of exercise, lack of a decent education, mixed breeding...

Tess wrote:Study claims we have 14 IQ points LESS than our 19th Century ancestors

Findings contradict the Flynn effect, which claims IQ has risen three points every decade since the Second World War

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2323944/Were-Victorians-cleverer-Research-indicates-decline-brainpower-reflex-speed.html

Now how could that be? Let me see: lack of nutritious food, lack of exercise, lack of a decent education, mixed breeding...

Eh?
I find that hardly a great indicator that we have lost IQ based on reaction times, which the data from the past is very limit Tess. Considering the types of jobs in the past compared too those we have today are completely different where many in the past were mainly manual labour plus the fact children were working earlier. I find many factors in my opinion have not been taken into account to be honest.

Look around, check out some of what may survive to be the future generations, says it all.

Flix wrote:Look around, check out some of what may survive to be the future generations, says it all.

How many survived back then?

Many died I agree because, usually, of very bad conditions, overcrowding, disease, no health care, no benefits, your only and last hope, god help you the Work house, some through gin and some with opium, that's apparently all changed now, but we haven't learned, we still see people dying of drug overdoses, contaminated drugs, illness through binge drinking, we have a generation of people who been conditioned to expect to get to university and get a job that immediately gives them the good life, if not get on a talent or reality programme and get instant fame or most preferred it seems marry a footballer - no real effort required, hardly any proper ambition, walking, just about talking Barbie dolls and designer track suited, white booted, constantly sniffing, swearing brothers, who probably at least deal in steroids aand ecstacy and have been through our education system and can't hold a conversation to save their lives, doesn't bode well - oh, and I'm not saying all.

The Victorians were at least going forward.

Flix wrote:Many died I agree because, usually, of very bad conditions, overcrowding, disease, no health care, no benefits, your only and last hope, god help you the Work house, some through gin and some with opium, that's apparently all changed now, but we haven't learned, we still see people dying of drug overdoses, contaminated drugs, illness through binge drinking, we have a generation of people who been conditioned to expect to get to university and get a job that immediately gives them the good life, if not get on a talent or reality programme and get instant fame or most preferred it seems marry a footballer - no real effort required, hardly any proper ambition, walking, just about talking Barbie dolls and designer track suited, white booted, constantly sniffing, swearing brothers, who probably at least deal in steroids aand ecstacy and have been through our education system and can't hold a conversation to save their lives, doesn't bode well - oh, and I'm not saying all.

The Victorians were at least going forward.

Were they going forward? One could argue if the civilization we profess to be advancing is nothing of the sort and that we have never truely had a civilized society. I do think it is unfair to again cast many people today on the virtues of material wealth that is accessable to many. Society does seem to have lost the need to feel proud of a days work for example, because we place more belief in helping those without than on those that do work, when in reality many people are very charitable when it comes down to it. To me it is a tad of a non-argument, as if you were to place many from the past and fast forward them to today many would quickly succumb to the many aspects available to society today. Many societies are at what I see as a crossroads, where we could either degrade as a society or move forward. Many people live with envy and bitterness at others, more so than in the past, you see this constantly on this forum with views about others. People seem constantly wrapped up in reality TV, than the real world itself and have lost in some cases the ability to live their lives and have to follow the example of others. Though today we saw with Angelina Jolie a good example of how someone famous can help a difficult situation and follow their example.

Tess wrote:Study claims we have 14 IQ points LESS than our 19th Century ancestors

Findings contradict the Flynn effect, which claims IQ has risen three points every decade since the Second World War

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2323944/Were-Victorians-cleverer-Research-indicates-decline-brainpower-reflex-speed.html

Now how could that be? Let me see: lack of nutritious food, lack of exercise, lack of a decent education, mixed breeding...

Is that comparing us as in white British with them or a selection of todays so called British with Its mix of imports?

mattiducatti wrote:


Is that comparing us as in white British with them or a selection of todays so called British with Its mix of imports?

That shows you did not read the article!

Didge is upset because in HIS mind he he is about 100x further forward than the Victorians, we all know better though.

Adrian Messenger wrote:Didge is upset because in HIS mind he he is about 100x further forward than the Victorians, we all know better though.

Hardly Keith, though am honered you keep following me around on the forum, you truely must have a crush on me , sorry I don't bat that way buddy.

Yep, I stalk you on here Didge... because I can only wank 6 or 7 times a day and I get bored after lunch.

Adrian Messenger wrote:Yep, I stalk you on here Didge... because I can only wank 6 or 7 times a day and I get bored after lunch.

I am not suprised when you have an arse on your head:

Didge wrote:


I am not suprised when you have an arse on your head:

RACIST!

If true, could it be lack of usage in certain parts of the brain, is our intelligence changing slightly, the emphasis moving to something else, although it seems pretty quick to notice an evolutionary change. We rely now on computers, calculators perhaps we don't need our awareness so much, although these days maybe we need it more. Is this overall in developed countries or everywhere, damn I'll have to read the article again.
A little off base but I can't help comparing the shuffling, mumbling, hair hanging over their faces students coming out of our local school at about 2:30pm with a programme on Hong Kong, where your final exam is make or break, school is eight hours then almost all the students pay to take two hours extra lessons with lecturers, the classes are huge and there is no sound but the lecturer speaking, everyone is sitting up and listening and taking copious notes, they all seemed motivated, bright and intelligent whether from wealthy or wrong side of the tracks public housing.

Flix wrote:If true, could it be lack of usage in certain parts of the brain, is our intelligence changing slightly, the emphasis moving to something else, although it seems pretty quick to notice an evolutionary change. We rely now on computers, calculators perhaps we don't need our awareness so much, although these days maybe we need it more. Is this overall in developed countries or everywhere, damn I'll have to read the article again.
A little off base but I can't help comparing the shuffling, mumbling, hair hanging over their faces students coming out of our local school at about 2:30pm with a programme on Hong Kong, where your final exam is make or break, school is eight hours then almost all the students pay to take two hours extra lessons with lecturers, the classes are huge and there is no sound but the lecturer speaking, everyone is sitting up and listening and taking copious notes, they all seemed motivated, bright and intelligent whether from wealthy or wrong side of the tracks public housing.

Interesting view, as have always found we need to make lessons back to how they once were, where students were interested in what they were learning and to be an accessory for life skills, espcially with employment. We do need to get away from the view of many of these most ridicuals courses that are compiled today for youngsters which I feel are not life skills and do not serve much purpose or provide a student with incentive. To me computers should be a course with schools not a requirment to do courses or lessons itself, as it takes away the ability for the student to learn in my opinion and again will allow laziness to creep in as it has done with calculators. I mean I had to learn my times tables by the age of 6 and cannot understand why it is not practiced this way today. Maybe time reactions are not a requiement for many roles and this aspect of intelligence is of little importance today when many are sat behiond a PC, but this may not mean they are still not enhancing their brains with a different skill.

I admire the Victorians they were very good engineers and they also
Had morals and principles ,something that is sadly lacking in today's third world London

Didge wrote:





Interesting view, as have always found we need to make lessons back to how they once were, where students were interested in what they were learning and to be an accessory for life skills, espcially with employment. We do need to get away from the view of many of these most ridicuals courses that are compiled today for youngsters which I feel are not life skills and do not serve much purpose or provide a student with incentive. To me computers should be a course with schools not a requirment to do courses or lessons itself, as it takes away the ability for the student to learn in my opinion and again will allow laziness to creep in as it has done with calculators. I mean I had to learn my times tables by the age of 6 and cannot understand why it is not practiced this way today. Maybe time reactions are not a requiement for many roles and this aspect of intelligence is of little importance today when many are sat behiond a PC, but this may not mean they are still not enhancing their brains with a different skill.

I fully agree with you Didge, how many youngsters today can do 'mental arithmetic'?? (or even spell it)??

What would they do after a sufficiently powerful EMP disabled all their electronic help-ware.

wyatt1 wrote:



I fully agree with you Didge, how many youngsters today can do 'mental arithmetic'?? (or even spell it)??

What would they do after a sufficiently powerful EMP disabled all their electronic help-ware.

Hi Wyatt

Very much agreed if any could, this is a problem how many are becoming reliant on technology and losing the ability to stimulate the brain with problem solving, I did see on Sky today about electric stimulants to the brain that helps arithmetic.

Didge wrote:

Hi Wyatt

Very much agreed if any could, this is a problem how many are becoming reliant on technology and losing the ability to stimulate the brain with problem solving, I did see on Sky today about electric stimulants to the brain that helps arithmetic.

Totally agree with you on this. There's also the exam system, based a lot on term work, a lot of which is just pulled from the internet, and then if they fail they just re-sit until they pass! How is that going to work in real life? I wonder how they'd do today based on a single exam with no access to technology at all, just using their intelligence. This needs to be adjusted.

As to the Victorians, it really says it all that we're still using infrastructure that they built; the sewers, underground and viaducts etc - all built without the use of today's machinery and technology.

Tess wrote:

Totally agree with you on this. There's also the exam system, based a lot on term work, a lot of which is just pulled from the internet, and then if they fail they just re-sit until they pass! How is that going to work in real life? I wonder how they'd do today based on a single exam with no access to technology at all, just using their intelligence. This needs to be adjusted.

As to the Victorians, it really says it all that we're still using infrastructure that they built; the sewers, underground and viaducts etc - all built without the use of today's machinery and technology.

I agree Tess, but you could even marvel more at the precision and mathematical skills used to build the Pyramids, espcially the Great one where the alignment to NESW is staggeringly accurate, so could we claim even further back how technology being used and the intelligence behind not just Egyptian monuments and objects but many other areas around the ancient world was in a way of a higher level?

Tess wrote:

Totally agree with you on this. There's also the exam system, based a lot on term work, a lot of which is just pulled from the internet, and then if they fail they just re-sit until they pass! How is that going to work in real life? I wonder how they'd do today based on a single exam with no access to technology at all, just using their intelligence. This needs to be adjusted.

As to the Victorians, it really says it all that we're still using infrastructure that they built; the sewers, underground and viaducts etc - all built without the use of today's machinery and technology.

It seems the old 'learn or else' system worked, even if it was unpopular, I should know as I was well acquainted with the 'belt' or 'tawse' as it was known!! (don't think it did me any harm, but it improved my concentration.)

The Victorians were a bit of a dichotomy really, fantastic ideas for engineering, buildings etc as you say buildings and sewres still standing and working, rich folks giving money to set up schools and orphanages and so much more yet there was an under world where the poor were considered to be in that state of their own volition, where prostitution both male and female was rife, its been suggested that almost every woman living in the poorer parts of London had at some time had to 'work the streets' to enable her family to survive - if that's the word.

Flix wrote:The Victorians were a bit of a dichotomy really, fantastic ideas for engineering, buildings etc as you say buildings and sewres still standing and working, rich folks giving money to set up schools and orphanages and so much more yet there was an under world where the poor were considered to be in that state of their own volition, where prostitution both male and female was rife, its been suggested that almost every woman living in the poorer parts of London had at some time had to 'work the streets' to enable her family to survive - if that's the word.

If you were young and fit and lived near the sea you had a good chance of waking up on a warship with a lump on your head after meeting up with the 'Press Gang', no previous experience was required and no 'Elf n Safety' then. Still it was a job.

wyatt1 wrote:

If you were young and fit and lived near the sea you had a good chance of waking up on a warship with a lump on your head after meeting up with the 'Press Gang', no previous experience was required and no 'Elf n Safety' then. Still it was a job.

No that did not happen to me!!! I am not quite that ancient.

wyatt1 wrote:

If you were young and fit and lived near the sea you had a good chance of waking up on a warship with a lump on your head after meeting up with the 'Press Gang', no previous experience was required and no 'Elf n Safety' then. Still it was a job.

No that was in the 18th century not the 19th. The Press Gang was phrased out in around the 1800's before Queen Victoria's reign.