Humans are not smarter than animals - we just don't understand them

First topic message reminder :

For many years, humans have believed we are the most intelligent beings on the planet. However, evolutionary biologists are now claiming that some members of the animal kingdom may in fact have superior brains - we just don't recognise their intelligence.

Scientists at the University of Adelaide argue that evidence is emerging to suggest some animals actually have cognitive faculties that are superior to those possessed by human beings.

“For millennia, all kinds of authorities – from religion to eminent scholars – have been repeating the same idea ad nauseam, that humans are exceptional by virtue and that they are the smartest in the animal kingdom,” says Dr Arthur Saniotis, Visiting Research Fellow with the University's School of Medical Sciences.

"The belief of human cognitive superiority became entrenched in human philosophy and sciences. Even Aristotle, probably the most influential of all thinkers, argued that humans were superior to other animals due to our exclusive ability to reason.

“However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/humans-are-not-smarter-than-animals--we-just-dont-understand-them-9003196.html

You mention a dog without training but is this not the same as a child without education?

Puriel wrote:

Tess wrote:
The homing pigeon was only one example.  Are animals cleverer than us for not building said bomb?

The point that Tea lacks in this debate is all animals have intelligence, he places technology as superior to common sense, where an animal in many species will do what is right for the good of their group, where as a humans will in 90% of the cases look to themselves. Humans are selfish and lack intelligence, they were given the gifts of limbs and what did they choose to do with them?
Invent ways to kill more people, now Tess I think you will agree with me here, most animals will kill another animal out of necessity, either for food or to survive. Humans though, have taken ignorance to a new level, as they have made  it a reason to kill over any petty thing, as they have no idea how to live with each other.
That is why we as humans lack intelliegnce

you seem to be anthropomorphising animals and ascribing them with more than instinct.
While I accept a whale or an elephant may well have large brains able to process complex emotions and solve problems. Most animals are barely self aware.
There are some birds that have demonstrated tool use and problem solving, but it is as a way to feed or f**k.
octopii may have the best shot at serious intelligence as they certainly can work out complex problems and remember the results to apply them to other problems.
Animals do what animals do, and they do it because it keeps them alive. real intelligence prospers when you don't have to spend most of your life in flight or fight, feeding or f**king.

humans are different from animals in that respect

Flap Gallagher wrote:
rather proves the point. Animals are good at what they have evolved to do.

could I detect a bomb with my nose. Nope, but neither could a dog or a bee unless it was trained to do so, that is not an inherent skill. could a dog find a bomb with a bit of mine sweeping kit, no, but I could be trained to do so.
Our noses are not as good at smelling because we no longer need to do so.

Hmm. I rest my case.

I think we have to look at the bigger picture here, do animals look good in bikinis ...... case closed.

Flap Gallagher wrote:
you seem to be anthropomorphising animals and ascribing them with more than instinct.
While I accept a whale or an elephant may well have large brains able to process complex emotions and solve problems. Most animals are barely self aware.
There are some birds that have demonstrated tool use and problem solving, but it is as a way to feed or f**k.
octopii may have the best shot at serious intelligence as they certainly can work out complex problems and remember the results to apply them to other problems.
Animals do what animals do, and they do it because it keeps them alive.  real intelligence prospers when you don't have to spend most of your life in flight or fight, feeding or f**king.

humans are different from animals in that respect

No, I am showing why you are an idiot, you think intelligence is formed from being able to create things, many animals show far more intelligence than we do and yet sadly humans think they are far superior.
Ask yourself, what is it to be intelligent, because so far your answers lack it?

Puriel wrote:

Evening Tea wrote:

Ha, what a load of misanthropic bullshit.
Intelligence isn't determined by your own personal view on morality, Didge.

Yes, I'm sure a lack of common sense and intelligence is what led us from being cave-men to masters of the planet.
Civilisation, arts, the sciences, language are SURELY the product of stupidity.
Quality argument, Didge.

No bullshit, just common sense you lack, you think technology is all about being superior and as Tess has shown, simple things animals can do show your simple beliefs are shattered.
Do you really believe intelligence is all bout control?
If you believe that, you are a child still

a homing pigeon could not find its way to peking unless it was trained to do so. you or I could find our way to any spot on the planet using the devices we as a species have created.
On the bomb front, I as a human do not need to find a bomb as I can create a machine or train an animal to do it.
I cannot fly but I can make a machine that will take me to the moon and further devices that will allow me to walk on said moon.
unlike any other animal on the planet I can go into any and every environment the planet has to offer, with the possible exception of an active volcano.
when a whale or a bowl of petunias go into space or an elephant dives to the bottom of the deepest ocean I think we as a species have the edge on the rest and we do that because we have intelligence as a species.

Sister Mary wrote:I think we have to look at the bigger picture here, do animals look good in bikinis ...... case closed.

Not necessarily...

Flap Gallagher wrote:
a homing pigeon could not find its way to peking unless it was trained to do so. you or I could find our way to any spot on the planet using the devices we as a species have created.
On the bomb front, I as a human do not need to find a bomb as I can create a machine or train an animal to do it.
I cannot fly but I can make a machine that will take me to the moon and further devices that will allow me to walk on said moon.
unlike any other animal on the planet I can go into any and every environment the planet has to offer, with the possible exception of an active volcano.
when a whale or a bowl of petunias go into space or an elephant dives to the bottom of the deepest ocean I think we as a species have the edge on the rest and we do that because we have intelligence as a species.  

I wonder which species is going to last longest though.

Puriel wrote:

Evening Tea wrote:

I am having serious trouble understanding why you think someone choosing not to be violent is a mark of intelligence and mental ability.
Are you calling Einstein an idiot for working on the atomic bomb?

Einstein was an idiot only for for not doing anything to stop the making of that bomb. He was a genius granted, but what makes humans be special is making the difficult decisions, when children like yourself think they are right. they lack insight of experience, they think they know better.
Tea, I will give you a clue, you know shit, you only know what you read in a book, you have yet to experience life and when you have then tell Tess she is wrong!

einstein was an idiot.
Well only compared to you I am sure

I suppose you knowledge is through personal experience alone then. Tell me about the war daddy. I look forward to hearing all about the crusades from a personal perspective.

Tess wrote:

Not necessarily...

Okay I'll take the job, but it will require three sittings to finish. I'll start limbering up.

Flap Gallagher wrote:
a homing pigeon could not find its way to peking unless it was trained to do so. you or I could find our way to any spot on the planet using the devices we as a species have created.
On the bomb front, I as a human do not need to find a bomb as I can create a machine or train an animal to do it.
I cannot fly but I can make a machine that will take me to the moon and further devices that will allow me to walk on said moon.
unlike any other animal on the planet I can go into any and every environment the planet has to offer, with the possible exception of an active volcano.
when a whale or a bowl of petunias go into space or an elephant dives to the bottom of the deepest ocean I think we as a species have the edge on the rest and we do that because we have intelligence as a species.  

That is why you are a dumbass, a pigeon can do things you cannot do, it needs no training. You can make a machine, no, you can learn what others teach you, how to build a machine, you never did that, you learnt from others So was the intelligent won here, and you, because you learnt something from someone else that taught you?
You know jack shit son, you only know how to follow.

Puriel wrote:

Flap Gallagher wrote:
are you saying technology is not come by with intelligence?

Homer Simpson alert, intelligence comes in many forms, keep up dopey!

tut tut, you do not seem to understand the term intelligence. I am referring to the human condition, not us mere mortals when compared to such a mighty colossus as yourself.

so technology does not come about with intelligence?

Just look at Meerkats - they run a successful insurance business.

Puriel wrote:

Flap Gallagher wrote:
as I said, no more than a dog could without being trained and no more than a dog could with a bit of minesweeping kit.

You have no clue on this do you, and just are posting balderdash, do you think we learn maths Flappy, or it is inbuilt?

do you think dogs inherently know what explosives are? they are trained for the scent by humans, they don't know it goes bang, they are just looking to get a treat. The only balderdash appears to be with your understanding or lack there of

Evening Tea wrote:

Puriel wrote:

No bullshit, just common sense you lack, you think technology is all about being superior and as Tess has shown, simple things animals can do show your simple beliefs are shattered.
Do you really believe intelligence is all bout control?
If you believe that, you are a child still

.
I'm not going to deal with your god-complex today, I've other things to do.

yes surely such a whippersnapper like you should be in beddykins by now

Flap Gallagher wrote:
einstein was an idiot.
Well only compared to you I am sure

I suppose you knowledge is through personal experience alone then. Tell me about the war daddy. I look forward to hearing all about the crusades from a personal perspective.

You seriously missed the context, he was not an idiot on many things, but on the atom bomb he did nothing, go figure that dumbass/

  

I know when debating an idiot as yourself you have not the first clue

Sister Mary wrote:You mention a dog without training but is this not the same as a child without education?

children do need training you are right, however they can at a certain point train themselves.
No matter how old a dog is it will never ride a bike or operate a mine sweeper.

Flap Gallagher wrote:
do you think dogs inherently know what explosives are? they are trained for the scent by humans, they don't know it goes bang, they are just looking to get a treat. The only balderdash appears to be with your understanding or lack there of

Do you think humans know people are bad inherently?
How do you think humans learn?

Dumbass!

Flap Gallagher wrote:
children do need training you are right, however they can at a certain point train themselves.
No matter how old a dog is it will never ride a bike or operate a mine sweeper.

What about the feral kids that grew up with dogs in Romania? They walked on all fours and had no human personality/behavioral traits at all.

Flap Gallagher wrote:
children do need training you are right, however they can at a certain point train themselves.
No matter how old a dog is it will never ride a bike or operate a mine sweeper.

So do animals and way quicker than humans, most animal can leave their parents after 1 to 2 years, can humans?

No

Epic fail from the dumbass

Puriel wrote:

So do animals and way quicker than humans, most animal can leave their parents after 1 to 2 years, can humans?

No

Epic fail from the dumbass  

Heddie was close to leaving yesterday.

Flap Gallagher wrote:
yes surely such a whippersnapper like you should be in beddykins by now

He is a child, he knows nothing of experience, he knows only what he has learnt in a book.
Am I wrong?
I don't think so

Flap Gallagher wrote:
tut tut, you do not seem to understand the term intelligence. I am referring to the human condition, not us mere mortals when compared to such a mighty colossus as yourself.

so technology does not come about with intelligence?

You are talking about human condition,

  

What a f**kwit , you only learn from what a few exceptional people left behind to teach you

Tess wrote:

Flap Gallagher wrote:
rather proves the point. Animals are good at what they have evolved to do.

could I detect a bomb with my nose. Nope, but neither could a dog or a bee unless it was trained to do so, that is not an inherent skill. could a dog find a bomb with a bit of mine sweeping kit, no, but I could be trained to do so.
Our noses are not as good at smelling because we no longer need to do so.

Hmm.  I rest my case.

which point?
let a homing pigeon go and say find tess's house at 24e 34n and it will fly in circles and go to where its coop is. It can fly home and no where else unless trained to fly there.
I can do it somewhat better with a gps invented by a "yuman" I could also find numerous forms of transport to get me from a to b all invented by "yumans"
Being able to do an instinctive thing does not mean it is higher intelligence. In the case of homing pigeon it means it can sense magnetic fields and navigate by the sun, all things humans can do with a magnetised pin and a bowl of water and a cork, although we have refined that system over time to use time signals picked up from satellites and triangulated to use in GPS devices.