I want to pee in mens and ladies' toilets

First topic message reminder :

A California organisation attempting to repeal an act allowing transgender students equal access to school facilities such as locker rooms and bathrooms now claims it has enough signatures to place the new law back on the ballot.

The bill, known as the School Success and Opportunity Act, was signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown in August, and is set to take effect from 1 January.

One of the provisions of the law, AB1266, would give transgender students the choice of playing on either a boys or girls sports team and to decide which restrooms and locker rooms to use.

The answer is quite straightforward. It is to have a Male toilet a Female toilet and a LBGT toilet. Then all the males and females can use the appropriate loos and those who have some sort of confusion regarding their sexuality can use the LGBT toilet. It's a Win Win idea. !!!!

Green given, a truly spiffing idea.

Ulrich von Liechtenstein wrote:A California organisation attempting to repeal an act allowing transgender students equal access to school facilities such as locker rooms and bathrooms now claims it has enough signatures to place the new law back on the ballot.

The bill, known as the School Success and Opportunity Act, was signed into law by Governor Jerry Brown in August, and is set to take effect from 1 January.
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One of the provisions of the law, AB1266, would give transgender students the choice of playing on either a boys or girls sports team and to decide which restrooms and locker rooms to use.
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How many have actually read this ?

Eilzel wrote:For the sake of so few people, who we may not even know were transgender anyway, that would be rather a massive effort. To me a trans person changes sex to the one they feel they are. Therefore if they are now a woman, they go in the girls and if they are now a man, then mens. That is equal and very simple surely.

I can feel that I'm a butterfly but that doesn't make it true.
As far as I'm concerned your sex is determined by your chromosomes, sexual organs, etc.

jeremyb wrote:The answer is quite straightforward. It is to have a Male toilet a Female toilet and a LBGT toilet. Then all the males and females can use the appropriate loos and those who have some sort of confusion regarding their sexuality can use the LGBT toilet. It's a Win Win idea. !!!!

Or just use the existing disabled toilets.



You can't turn a man into a woman by just chopping off the dick and.tucking the skin up inside, any more than you can make an orange into an apple by painting it green!

Evening Tea wrote:I can feel that I'm a butterfly but that doesn't make it true.
As far as I'm concerned your sex is determined by your chromosomes, sexual organs, etc.

Well whatever some people think, society is moving, or has moved on. Regardless of peoples personal opinion on whether a transsexual man or woman is a man or a woman the situation with toilets remains. And you simply cannot always know who is and who is not and even if you could we are talking one person in thousands. No one can put forward a decent argument as to how you would even 'police' people in to the right toilet, because there is no possible practical way of doing so. If a transsexual woman who looks just like a woman chooses the ladies toilet, as is her right, then how on this earth would anyone find out otherwise- same with the reverse, a transsexual man would use a gents and no one would have the first clue they were once a woman. If there was separate toilets therefore they simply would not get used.

Use the disabled toilet, then there is no argument.

mattiducatti wrote:Use the disabled toilet, then there is no argument.

You missed the point really- if a woman who was a man now looks 100% like any other woman then why is she going to choose to go in a different toilet when no one would even know she was ever a man or not?

Simple question matti.

See above pictures and comments.

A man is not a woman and a woman is not a man, no matter how you dress it up or surgically mutilate it.

Looks 100% like.....    




Lez, 100% looks like....erm




Most look like dockers with stubble and banana hands.

mattiducatti wrote:See above pictures and comments.

A man is not a woman and a woman is not a man, no matter how you dress it up or surgically mutilate it.

The above pictures are a small number of obvious cases, I don't deny many people are obvious, but many are not- even more so in Thailand where you have literally no clue whatsoever.

You haven't answered the point though- it doesn't matter what you think- how do you stop someone who looks like a woman going into the ladies toilet?

"...how do you stop someone who looks like a woman going into the ladies toilet?"


Exactly what the problem is!


You are advocating that anyone dressed as a woman should be able to use the woman's toilets.


So any pervert could freely go in there and be peeping over the walls etc.


How do you police this?


Have an examination room at the entrance?


A man is not a woman. No matter what it is dressed up like. Didn't you realise that dame Edna and Lilly savage are really men?


And I have been to Thailand, and it is sad that so many young men feel they have to become 'women' in order to work in the sordid sex industry there to earn some money.

mattiducatti wrote:
"...how do you stop someone who looks like a woman going into the ladies toilet?"


Exactly what the problem is!


You are advocating that anyone dressed as a woman should be able to use the woman's toilets.


So any pervert could freely go in there and be peeping over the walls etc.


How do you police this?


Have an examination room at the entrance?


A man is not a woman. No matter what it is dressed up like. Didn't you realise that dame Edna and Lilly savage are really men?


And I have been to Thailand, and it is sad that so many young men feel they have to become 'women' in order to work in the sordid sex industry there to earn some money.

Actually I know transsexuals in Thailand who have great jobs and do not work in the sex industry, one is a friend of ours- I lived there and have friends out there matti- which may be slightly different to your run of the mill holiday and ogling at novelty bars.

Now again you don't really answer the question. Whether some perverts do go into womens toilets I don't know- it isn't a problem we hear much of though. Then you agree with me on it being difficult (impossible almost) to police- exactly, we can't, so if there are those who use a ladies toilet who are men who have had full sex change operations then they will use the ladies and there is no way you can stop them- at least not one you have suggested.

I could post pictures of women who you would have a tough time telling were ever men but honestly this discussion does not warrant the effort to point known facts and you are being deliberately difficult anyway imo. A famous transsexual who comes to mind is Nadia who won Big Brother many years ago- ok there are small signs but tbf if you saw her in the street you'd just think she was a broad built woman but a woman nonetheless, there are though many women, born women, who look more 'macho' than her.

So matti, what would you do with such a woman as she enters the ladies?

What the heck is a novelty bar?

Ulrich von Liechtenstein wrote:What the heck is a novelty bar?

Novelty as in designed often solely for the sake of tourists

They don't have these in Indian Wells, palm Springs.

Eilzel wrote:Well whatever some people think, society is moving, or has moved on. Regardless of peoples personal opinion on whether a transsexual man or woman is a man or a woman the situation with toilets remains. And you simply cannot always know who is and who is not and even if you could we are talking one person in thousands. No one can put forward a decent argument as to how you would even 'police' people in to the right toilet, because there is no possible practical way of doing so. If a transsexual woman who looks just like a woman chooses the ladies toilet, as is her right, then how on this earth would anyone find out otherwise- same with the reverse, a transsexual man would use a gents and no one would have the first clue they were once a woman. If there was separate toilets therefore they simply would not get used.

Saying how society is isn't really an argument.
Do you think that it is okay to lynch homosexuals in Russia purely because of how they are?

Evening Tea wrote:Saying how society is isn't really an argument.
Do you think that it is okay to lynch homosexuals in Russia purely because of how they are?

Our society, in Britain, has moved on; and in the western world and parts of the far-east there is a trend moving in one direction- only Africa, the Middle-East and parts of Eastern Europe remain stubborn to it and this is often entwined with a high level of religious heavy handedness.

But this isn't a thread on peoples opinions of transsexuals or indeed gay people- that is irrelevant. It is about toilets and who should use them.

Eilzel wrote:Our society, in Britain, has moved on; and in the western world and parts of the far-east there is a trend moving in one direction- only Africa, the Middle-East and parts of Eastern Europe remain stubborn to it and this is often entwined with a high level of religious heavy handedness.

But this isn't a thread on peoples opinions of transsexuals or indeed gay people- that is irrelevant. It is about toilets and who should use them.

General opinion in the UK might have changed yes but using that as an argument is stupid.
If you use that logic then years ago people could have said "because society thinks it's wrong" as a legitimate excuse to discriminate and harm homosexuals and the like just like how people could use your argument to justify lynching homosexuals and the like in the Russia and other parts of the world where homosexuals are in serious danger just for how they are.
It's the exact same argument with the exact same amount of legitimacy only it's being applied to different social norms.

Anyway, I don't really see how a thread about what that transsexuals should use is irrelevant to the LGBT community.
It is relevant because it's an issue that revolves around them.

Argumentum ad populum.

Evening Tea wrote:General opinion in the UK might have changed yes but using that as an argument is stupid.
If you use that logic then years ago people could have said "because society thinks it's wrong" as a legitimate excuse to discriminate and harm homosexuals and the like just like how people could use your argument to justify lynching homosexuals and the like in the Russia and other parts of the world where homosexuals are in serious danger just for how they are.
It's the exact same argument with the exact same amount of legitimacy only it's being applied to different social norms.

Anyway, I don't really see how a thread about what that transsexuals should use is irrelevant to the LGBT community.
It is relevant because it's an issue that revolves around them.

I appreciate they are under the same umbrella term and issues are related, however, what I meant was it doesn't matter to the whole idea of having separate toilets- because even in a society where a transsexual girl was not legally recognized or was heavily discriminated against, it STILL wouldn't stop those those who gone through the changes and who no one would guess were ever a man from using the ladies toilets.

Quite simply if a gentleman uses a toilet he sits no matter what the occasion  on that I have no problem

As a female I do have  a problem with bad aimers ,missing the bowl, all over the seat and floor and the non flushing let alone having to touch anything within the  room including door handles that they have done without washing of hands.

I get out the bath to pee in the sink. 

Eilzel wrote:Actually I know transsexuals in Thailand who have great jobs and do not work in the sex industry, one is a friend of ours- I lived there and have friends out there matti- which may be slightly different to your run of the mill holiday and ogling at novelty bars.Most are because of the sex industry. And interesting how you complain about stereotyping but are quick to throw in the stereotype of me having a 'run of the mill holiday and ogling at novelty bars' etc!

While in reality, my time spent there was nothing of the sort, and was actively avoided.

Now again you don't really answer the question. Whether some perverts do go into womens toilets I don't know- it isn't a problem we hear much of though. Then you agree with me on it being difficult (impossible almost) to police- exactly, we can't, so if there are those who use a ladies toilet who are men who have had full sex change operations then they will use the ladies and there is no way you can stop them- at least not one you have suggested.
Again, a man who has had some surgical genital mutilation and wears womens clothes is still not a women, but you advocate them being allowed free access into womens toilets, but then you say other men who may wear womens clothing, but not full on 'sex changed' should not be allowed?

I say none should be allowed, you say some should, so you tell us how this is going to be fairly/accurately/safely policed?

As surely this will need to be policed, as it opens the door to anyone who might be wearing womens clothes, including any dangerous pervert now allowed free access just by donning a wig and a bit of lip stick!!

Surely the safety and security of our women are more important in these sensitive and vulnerable toilet areas, than again pandering to the whims and sensitivities of a tiny minority/percentage of sexually confused people of questionable sanity???

I could post pictures of women who you would have a tough time telling were ever men but honestly this discussion does not warrant the effort to point known facts and you are being deliberately difficult anyway imo. A famous transsexual who comes to mind is Nadia who won Big Brother many years ago- ok there are small signs but tbf if you saw her in the street you'd just think she was a broad built woman but a woman nonetheless, there are though many women, born women, who look more 'macho' than her.
Not sure what point you are making here?

Only the girly looking ones should be allowed and the others should not?

Again, you are advocating the allowance of this, so you tell us how this level of allowed/not allowed is going to work and be policed?

Who is going to be there vetting these people and by what criteria?

So matti, what would you do with such a woman as she enters the ladies?
Question is, what would you do? As you are saying it should be allowed so tell us what the rules are and how they are to be enforced?

How can you determine the difference between the full op ones, from the pre op ones, and the perverts who just want to get in the ladies by wearing as dress?

Or between the pre op girly looking ones from the full op manly looking ones?

Would you set up an examination room by the entrance checking genitals?

Or just turn away anyone with big hands or who look a little manly?

And what are the rules on acceptable size of hands and/or manly looks?

And come on then, post up some pictures of your lady boys and we'll see if we can have a game of 'chicks or dicks'!!!