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Post  Smelly_bandit on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:13 pm

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Post  Flap Zappa on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:57 pm


what a misleading thread title.
It is nothing about america adopting any form of sharia. It is about trying to teach their troops to show the proper respect when they are on operations in islamic countries. Which seems eminently sensible considering lasts weeks problems due to them not understanding those sensibilities.
You and others are constantly demanding that immigrants accept our standards, but seem unwilling to extend that courtesy to people in other countries.

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Post  Smelly_bandit on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:03 pm

Flap Meister wrote:

what a misleading thread title.
It is nothing about america adopting any form of sharia. It is about trying to teach their troops to show the proper respect when they are on operations in islamic countries. Which seems eminently sensible considering lasts weeks problems due to them not understanding those sensibilities.
You and others are constantly demanding that immigrants accept our standards, but seem unwilling to extend that courtesy to people in other countries.

of course America is adopting sharia law you simpleton

have a look

american government adopts sharia law  Quran610

first line in
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Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:16 pm

Please tell me how the above is sharia?


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Post  Smelly_bandit on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:16 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Please tell me how the above is sharia?


you're an idiot

go away and stop wasting my time
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Post  Mystic Moon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:21 pm

Flap Meister wrote:

what a misleading thread title.
It is nothing about america adopting any form of sharia. It is about trying to teach their troops to show the proper respect when they are on operations in islamic countries. Which seems eminently sensible considering lasts weeks problems due to them not understanding those sensibilities.
You and others are constantly demanding that immigrants accept our standards, but seem unwilling to extend that courtesy to people in other countries.



Sorry to disagree, but I find this absolutely appalling!! I would love to know what some Constitutional scholars would have to say about this mandatory reverence and deferential treatment of religion not one's own, I don't give a damn military or not. This damn book I am sick of it! The ONLY reason that I can see for this double standard is that Muslims are violent and uncivilized who at the drop of a hat will kill to prove that they are superior. Is the level of violence that followers of one certain religion are willing to do now the standard for how the rest of us must behave? What?

We are at war what part of that does one not understand. Can we imagine giving respect to Mein Kampf during the last global conflict? As far as I can see Islam and its followers completely believe they are superior to all other religions and every time they see us on our bellies crawling so as NOT to offend that opinion is re-inforced in their minds. The more deference that we show them the more convinced they are that the violence against the infidel should continue.

Son of gun, the Muslim are motivated by hate and passion for their beliefs, what the hell do we have? They are not going to win this struggle we are going to lose it. Neutral
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Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:26 pm

@Smelly_bandit wrote:

you're an idiot

go away and stop wasting my time

So you cant explain no?

Ok

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Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:27 pm

@Mystic Moon wrote:






Sorry to disagree, but I find this absolutely appalling!! I would love to know what some Constitutional scholars would have to say about this mandatory reverence and deferential treatment of religion not one's own, I don't give a damn military or not. This damn book I am sick of it! The ONLY reason that I can see for this double standard is that Muslims are violent and uncivilized who at the drop of a hat will kill to prove that they are superior. Is the level of violence that followers of one certain religion are willing to do now the standard for how the rest
of us must behave? What?

We are at war what part of that does one not understand. Can we imagine giving respect to Mein Kampf during the last global conflict? As far as I can see Islam and its followers completely believe they are

superior to all other religions and every time they see us on our bellies crawling so as NOT to offend that opinion is re-inforced in their minds. The more deference that we show them the more convinced they are that the violence against the infidel should continue.


Son of gun, the Muslim are motivated by hate and passion for their beliefs, what the hell do we have? They are not going to win this struggle we are going to lose it. Neutral

With views like that its Just as well you are not in charge then!

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Post  Mystic Moon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:02 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:

With views like that its Just as well you are not in charge then!



Sorry. don't mean to offend you, but it has always been my opinion that we should not expect men and women in the military to become diplomats, we should not expect to see them bowing and scraping to the same people who in the next instant may shoot them dead. The military has a job to do, that job is difficult enough and could very well cost them their lives, and now they have to also worry about how they treat a damn book? Our cultures demands that we put human life over the printed page. When I see Islam respecting others and their religions maybe I will feel differently, but I doubt it....war means that a lot of people die and it also means that a lot of things get broken that's why it should be avoided.
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Post  guest... on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:10 pm

@Mystic Moon wrote:



Sorry. don't mean to offend you, but it has always been my opinion that we should not expect men and women in the military to become diplomats, we should not expect to see them bowing and scraping to the same people who in the next instant may shoot them dead. The military has a job to do, that job is difficult enough and could very well cost them their lives, and now they have to also worry about how they treat a damn book? Our cultures demands that we put human life over the printed page. When I see Islam respecting others and their religions maybe I will feel differently, but I doubt it....war means that a lot of people die and it also means that a lot of things get broken that's why it should be avoided.

Sorry Mystic, that philosphy cost the yanks the Vietnam war, you need to learn from History, they also did not respect and cost them thousands of lives, where as you look at British forces in conflicts used a much better approach of respecting the people they had come to help and guess what it worked.

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Post  Mystic Moon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:58 pm

Didge wrote:

Sorry Mystic, that philosphy cost the yanks the Vietnam war, you need to learn from History, they also did not respect and cost them thousands of lives, where as you look at British forces in conflicts used a much better approach of respecting the people they had come to help and guess what it worked.

You are misunderstanding me Didge, there should be no boots on the ground in these backward uncivilized nations. There should be no such thing as "winning hearts and minds" or nation building. Afghanistan chose to harbor terrorists who have killed and threatened the world around them. The country should have been leveled from the air. End of story. Then the Afghans could have put all of their energies into rebuilding or going further back in time whichever they chose. How many of our military would not have been killed or maimed for this nebulous concept called peace?? There would have been NO need for sensitivity training and we could have saved ourselves a boat load of money.

You see Didge, call me cruel or whatever I just don't see that any of these people were worth one drop of US or British blood. Take away their every single means of waging war, give them starvation and pestilence, let them know what real terror is, that is what they understand, and we wouldn't have heard from them for at least another hundred years. Works for me...

Respect? What? Respect? Do you really think that lack of respect is what killed our troops in Viet Nam? Stupid me, here I thought what was killing them was the fact that communism was on the move and the US was attempting to halt its progress. If only they would have known that a little respect would have done the trick maybe 58,000 young men would have lived to reach old age. Damn!
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Post  guest... on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:19 am

@Mystic Moon wrote:

You are misunderstanding me Didge, there should be no boots on the ground in these backward uncivilized nations. There should be no such thing as "winning hearts and minds" or nation building. Afghanistan chose to harbor terrorists who have killed and threatened the world around them. The country should have been leveled from the air. End of story. Then the Afghans could have put all of their energies into rebuilding or going further back in time whichever they chose. How many of our military would not have been killed or maimed for this nebulous concept called peace?? There would have been NO need for sensitivity training and we could have saved ourselves a boat load of money.

Can't believe what I am reading reading really, beggars belief, your philosophy has never won over people by classing them as all one uncivilised nation. It requires time, you would rather we treat them as savages, even though there are those who want to progress. How many would have survived if Bush did not ignore the Taliban who were willing to give up Bin laden in the first place, so please spare me that? It is not about being sensitivity, but repecting being in a nation with a different culture, do you not expect the same when people come to our nations?

You see Didge, call me cruel or whatever I just don't see that any of these people were worth one drop of US or British blood. Take away their every single means of waging war, give them starvation and pestilence, let them know what real terror is, that is what they understand, and we wouldn't have heard from them for at least another hundred years. Works for me...
Well I am sure there are many servicemen and women that would very much disagree with you, when they daily put their lives in the line and feel they are making a difference. Sorry your philosophy would make the whole of the middle east against us, and we do not have enough resources to sustain ourselves and with sky rocketing fuel prices it would not be them but us that end up starving, when we will not be able to sustain ourselves, there would be anarchy. You really need to think things through, before creating a devide in the world that would leave us very much in peril, until we develope other fuel resources, you would leave many western nations grinding to a halt and cause another global recession, that is not what I call clever in the least. if we cannot move forward and find solutions then we are in trouble, it is the far east that is taking over our economies and growing faster than we are, you would ruin our civilisations and turn our nations into anarchy.


Respect? What? Respect? Do you really think that lack of respect is what killed our troops in Viet Nam? Stupid me, here I thought what was killing them was the fact that communism was on the move and the US was attempting to halt its progress. If only they would have known that a little respect would have done the trick maybe 58,000 young men would have lived to reach old age. Damn!

The yanks should have never been in Vietman, worst defeat they have suffered at the hands of a poorly equiped army, they never learnt the tactis the Brits had used in many places like malaysia ect, Communism collasped in many places on its own.

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Post  Flap Zappa on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:59 am

@Mystic Moon wrote:
Flap Meister wrote:

what a misleading thread title.
It is nothing about america adopting any form of sharia. It is about trying to teach their troops to show the proper respect when they are on operations in islamic countries. Which seems eminently sensible considering lasts weeks problems due to them not understanding those sensibilities.
You and others are constantly demanding that immigrants accept our standards, but seem unwilling to extend that courtesy to people in other countries.



Sorry to disagree, but I find this absolutely appalling!! I would love to know what some Constitutional scholars would have to say about this mandatory reverence and deferential treatment of religion not one's own, I don't give a damn military or not. This damn book I am sick of it! The ONLY reason that I can see for this double standard is that Muslims are violent and uncivilized who at the drop of a hat will kill to prove that they are superior. Is the level of violence that followers of one certain religion are willing to do now the standard for how the rest of us must behave? What?

We are at war what part of that does one not understand. Can we imagine giving respect to Mein Kampf during the last global conflict? As far as I can see Islam and its followers completely believe they are superior to all other religions and every time they see us on our bellies crawling so as NOT to offend that opinion is re-inforced in their minds. The more deference that we show them the more convinced they are that the violence against the infidel should continue.

Son of gun, the Muslim are motivated by hate and passion for their beliefs, what the hell do we have? They are not going to win this struggle we are going to lose it. Neutral

this appears to be guidelines for troops overseas in muslim countries. As we have seen burning copies of the koran has untold consequences in these countries where people hold a lot of store in a book.
Would you prefer more american soldiers be killed because of easily avoided situations.

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Post  Flap Zappa on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:00 am

@Mystic Moon wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

With views like that its Just as well you are not in charge then!



Sorry. don't mean to offend you, but it has always been my opinion that we should not expect men and women in the military to become diplomats, we should not expect to see them bowing and scraping to the same people who in the next instant may shoot them dead. The military has a job to do, that job is difficult enough and could very well cost them their lives, and now they have to also worry about how they treat a damn book? Our cultures demands that we put human life over the printed page. When I see Islam respecting others and their religions maybe I will feel differently, but I doubt it....war means that a lot of people die and it also means that a lot of things get broken that's why it should be avoided.

and that has been a big difference between american and british thinking. Hearts and minds are where you win these sorts of wars

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Post  Flap Zappa on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:02 am

@Mystic Moon wrote:
Didge wrote:

Sorry Mystic, that philosphy cost the yanks the Vietnam war, you need to learn from History, they also did not respect and cost them thousands of lives, where as you look at British forces in conflicts used a much better approach of respecting the people they had come to help and guess what it worked.

You are misunderstanding me Didge, there should be no boots on the ground in these backward uncivilized nations. There should be no such thing as "winning hearts and minds" or nation building. Afghanistan chose to harbor terrorists who have killed and threatened the world around them. The country should have been leveled from the air. End of story. Then the Afghans could have put all of their energies into rebuilding or going further back in time whichever they chose. How many of our military would not have been killed or maimed for this nebulous concept called peace?? There would have been NO need for sensitivity training and we could have saved ourselves a boat load of money.

You see Didge, call me cruel or whatever I just don't see that any of these people were worth one drop of US or British blood. Take away their every single means of waging war, give them starvation and pestilence, let them know what real terror is, that is what they understand, and we wouldn't have heard from them for at least another hundred years. Works for me...

Respect? What? Respect? Do you really think that lack of respect is what killed our troops in Viet Nam? Stupid me, here I thought what was killing them was the fact that communism was on the move and the US was attempting to halt its progress. If only they would have known that a little respect would have done the trick maybe 58,000 young men would have lived to reach old age. Damn!

more were killed on september the 11th in one attack than in the 10 years of war. that is what the boots on the ground are trying to stop.

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Post  Flap Zappa on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:05 am

@Mystic Moon wrote:
Didge wrote:

Sorry Mystic, that philosphy cost the yanks the Vietnam war, you need to learn from History, they also did not respect and cost them thousands of lives, where as you look at British forces in conflicts used a much better approach of respecting the people they had come to help and guess what it worked.

You are misunderstanding me Didge, there should be no boots on the ground in these backward uncivilized nations. There should be no such thing as "winning hearts and minds" or nation building. Afghanistan chose to harbor terrorists who have killed and threatened the world around them. The country should have been leveled from the air. End of story. Then the Afghans could have put all of their energies into rebuilding or going further back in time whichever they chose. How many of our military would not have been killed or maimed for this nebulous concept called peace?? There would have been NO need for sensitivity training and we could have saved ourselves a boat load of money.

You see Didge, call me cruel or whatever I just don't see that any of these people were worth one drop of US or British blood. Take away their every single means of waging war, give them starvation and pestilence, let them know what real terror is, that is what they understand, and we wouldn't have heard from them for at least another hundred years. Works for me...

Respect? What? Respect? Do you really think that lack of respect is what killed our troops in Viet Nam? Stupid me, here I thought what was killing them was the fact that communism was on the move and the US was attempting to halt its progress. If only they would have known that a little respect would have done the trick maybe 58,000 young men would have lived to reach old age. Damn!

america got beat in vietnam by little yellow chaps in pyjamas because they did not win the hearts and minds of the people in the villages of viet nam. The viet cong could not win a single engagement militarily, but it was still they who took over the south. Britains approach has always been to try and get the locals onside and by an large that approach works.

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Post  Mystic Moon on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:02 am

Flap Meister wrote:

and that has been a big difference between american and british thinking. Hearts and minds are where you win these sorts of wars

You are kidding, right? Do you really want to be taking credit for this assinine "hearts and minds" stategy? I wouldn't. What I see is complete and utter failure. What I see is an endles stream of body bags coming home. What we have here is an endless ten year war where the enemy has not changed one bit from their hard line killing ways. SHOW ME one heart one mind which has been changed??????

What I see is an American government who is begging to talk to the taliban and will do so on taliban terms. What I see are far too many American lives sacrificed in an effort to appease a culture, a people who are so different from us as to be from another planet.

You think that hearts and minds have saved lives? Would you be willing to live in country which is in a perpetual state of war? What do our enemies have to do to win? What do they have to do to win against a country whose single aircraft carrier could provide more power than their entire arsenal? What does the enemy have to do to win against such might? All they have do is wait, and since they have nothing else in their lives they do have patience.

What lost Viet Nam? One thing only, an unwillingness to win is what lost Viet Nam. You don't send soldiers off to war and tell them they have rules when the enemy doesn't. Having the hearts and minds of the Vietnamese would not have made a damn bit of difference when the cowards back home had no courage to see it through to victory. Send an 18 year old off to war and then tie his hands behind his back so there is no such thing as victory and all you get back is a body bag with an 18 years old inside. The only people capable of defeating the US military is the American politician from both parties.

I know you Brits have no respect for the US Military, but they are our people and we don't like losing them especially trying to capture the hearts and minds of a people who have neither heart, nor mind.
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Post  Guest on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:34 am

Flap Meister wrote:

america got beat in vietnam by little yellow chaps in pyjamas because they did not win the hearts and minds of the people in the villages of viet nam. The viet cong could not win a single engagement militarily, but it was still they who took over the south. Britains approach has always been to try and get the locals onside and by an large that approach works.

No By divide to rule? Of course....You aren't allowed to say such a thing like that are you.

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Post  Smelly_bandit on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:36 am

Flap Meister wrote:

this appears to be guidelines for troops overseas in muslim countries. As we have seen burning copies of the koran has untold consequences in these countries where people hold a lot of store in a book.
Would you prefer more american soldiers be killed because of easily avoided situations.

What's this??

US troops being killed in Afghanistan because of the book burning?

I suppose up until now the Taliban have Been playing tiddly winks with the troops??

What mind boggling stupidity


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Post  guest... on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:53 am

@Smelly_bandit wrote:

What's this??

US troops being killed in Afghanistan because of the book burning?

I suppose up until now the Taliban have Been playing tiddly winks with the troops??

What mind boggling stupidity



Says the boy who never provides an intelligent counter, did they teach you hearts and minds in the Commando's smelly, or did you miss those lessons?

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Post  Tess on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:29 am

Flap Meister wrote:

america got beat in vietnam by little yellow chaps in pyjamas because they did not win the hearts and minds of the people in the villages of viet nam. The viet cong could not win a single engagement militarily, but it was still they who took over the south. Britains approach has always been to try and get the locals onside and by an large that approach works.

There were a lot more reasons why the USA lost the vietnam war than "winning the hearts and minds" of the Vietnamese. Rather than doing a Didge and posting pages of stuff, this simple exam site lists the main ones:

http://www.learnhistory.org.uk/vietnam/usdefeat.htm

Its the same with Afghanistan and other countries like it. Mystic Moon's right in her post - we shouldn't get involved - we'll never understand their "hearts and minds" because they're fanatics who'll never change. Its an unwinnable mission.
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Post  guest... on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:39 am

@Tess wrote:

There were a lot more reasons why the USA lost the vietnam war than "winning the hearts and minds" of the Vietnamese. Rather than doing a Didge and posting pages of stuff, this simple exam site lists the main ones:

http://www.learnhistory.org.uk/vietnam/usdefeat.htm

Its the same with Afghanistan and other countries like it. Mystic Moon's right in her post - we shouldn't get involved - we'll never understand their "hearts and minds" because they're fanatics who'll never change. Its an unwinnable mission.



PMSL again this morning, what a wonderrful day, you yanks screwed up very much on their policies in Vietnam, not only on hearts and minds but their bombing policies, so much it turn their on people up in arms over it. You have to understand the culture you are dealing with and the British have done this very well in other conflicts Tessticle. You seem to really have a problem with me and i find that very amusing, don;t forget to take your bitter pill darling this morning!

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Post  gelico on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:46 am

Didge wrote:



PMSL again this morning, what a wonderrful day, you yanks screwed up very much on their policies in Vietnam, not only on hearts and minds but their bombing policies, so much it turn their on people up in arms over it. You have to understand the culture you are dealing with and the British have done this very well in other conflicts Tessticle. You seem to really have a problem with me and i find that very amusing, don;t forget to take your bitter pill darling this morning!

I didn't know tess was american :shock: :shock:

why do you think she has a problem
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Post  guest... on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:56 am

@gelico wrote:

I didn't know tess was american :shock: :shock:

why do you think she has a problem

Well spotted, my mistake, should have said the yanks, as to tess, I just get bored of the constant little digs, i would not mind but I actually argue my points, though sometimes it can be amusing, it is mainly just boring, some people are just very bitter, so I take the piss more out of them when they do !

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Post  gelico on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:00 pm

Didge wrote:

Well spotted, my mistake, should have said the yanks, as to tess, I just get bored of the constant little digs, i would not mind but I actually argue my points, though sometimes it can be amusing, it is mainly just boring, some people are just very bitter, so I take the piss more out of them when they do !

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what digs?? why do you think she is bitter??

I don't get what you're saying scratch

Are you talking about tess??

I have no idea what's wrong here :evil:
gelico
gelico
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